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xylotism



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Join date : 2010-02-05

PostSubject: Out of curiosity   Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:11 pm

Why do you guys need a Frost DPS DK?

I could play the role, of course, so I'm slightly self-interested, but mostly I'm just curious. Last I checked they were all but useless in 25 mans, being that their dps is lower than Blood/Unholy and the buff is redundant with a shammy around.

Preparation for 3.3.3's badass Frost buffs?
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kosinissa

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PostSubject: Re: Out of curiosity   Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:15 pm

Our melee are Sad without 4% haste
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xylotism



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PostSubject: Re: Out of curiosity   Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:24 pm

kosinissa wrote:
Our melee are Sad without 4% haste

Ah, no enhance then? That's depressing... you can kill two birds with one stone, given they have Blood's buff too.
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Aodhan

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PostSubject: Re: Out of curiosity   Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:31 pm

We're lacking a proficient and experienced Enhance shaman. Given the fact we have a Blood DK tank and MM hunters, the 10% AP buff is covered. We're missing out on 4% haste. Enhance Shamans and DW Frost DKs crunch similar numbers, so using either or is not an issue.
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xylotism



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PostSubject: Re: Out of curiosity   Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:38 pm

Aodhan wrote:
We're lacking a proficient and experienced Enhance shaman. Given the fact we have a Blood DK tank and MM hunters, the 10% AP buff is covered. We're missing out on 4% haste. Enhance Shamans and DW Frost DKs crunch similar numbers, so using either or is not an issue.

Got it. Have you considered a Frost tank? They're not as badass as Blood, but if dps is an issue, it may be more useful to take a less-than-perfect tank over a less-than-perfect DPS and get the same buff, no?

A well-geared [and experienced] DK tank can survive speccing IIT-Frost in ICC, I think.

Unless of course your tank crew doesn't include a DK, which is also reasonable with how OP pallies are right now.

Either way, come 3.3.3 Frost will be standing a lot better for both sides of the coin, so having one or the other is a good choice.

[EDIT: Hell, even Unholy will be sub-speccing into Frost, and from the suggested spec, they only have to trade one point to pick up IIT]
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Aodhan

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PostSubject: Re: Out of curiosity   Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:45 pm

The viability of a Frost tank in most HM ICC fights is quite low, compared to every other tank class.

A frost DK lacks the CDs which make Blood preferred. (i.e. Last Stand). Pallies effectively proc Last Stand. Druids have it. Warriors have it. Blood DKs. I just don't view Frost tanks at all viable for end-game content as it currently works out.

Edit: Good Frost DK tanks also do not spec into Imp. Icy Talons (haste talent for those non-dks reading this).
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xylotism



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PostSubject: Re: Out of curiosity   Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:52 pm

Aodhan wrote:
The viability of a Frost tank in most HM ICC fights is quite low, compared to every other tank class.

A frost DK lacks the CDs which make Blood preferred. (i.e. Last Stand). Pallies effectively proc Last Stand. Druids have it. Warriors have it. Blood DKs. I just don't view Frost tanks at all viable for end-game content as it currently works out.

Ah, well I can't speak from experience with Hardmodes, I haven't been to ICC since LK was released.

So then, I take it one or more of the bosses in there hits for 50k+ in a matter of seconds, if not instantly? Sounds nasty.

EDIT: Indeed they don't. I never recommend it unless they know exactly what they're doing and can afford to give up a bunch of threat.
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Soulg

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PostSubject: Re: Out of curiosity   Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:17 pm

Indeed aodhan, frost is subpar spec for tanking compared to blood. It still works, but it is subpar on single target tanking. And getting ImpIT is pretty out of the way for DWfrost tanking
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KYSERSOZE



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PostSubject: Re: Out of curiosity   Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:23 pm

GOGO pfg(enhance)???? /push-nudge
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xylotism



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PostSubject: Re: Out of curiosity   Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:23 pm

Soulg wrote:
Indeed aodhan, frost is subpar spec for tanking compared to blood. It still works, but it is subpar on single target tanking. And getting ImpIT is pretty out of the way for DWfrost tanking

Was thinking 2H, really. DW already guts a lot of good talents for ToT/NoCS, especially if you're doing a 2-disease build with Epidemic. 2H doesn't have much room to breathe either, but it's doable. Whether or not it's too big a stretch just depends on how badly you need 4% haste.

But you're right, now that I think about it, a Frost DPS has less to worry about by speccing IIT than a tank. The only reason to use the tank method would be if the tank grossly overgeared the encounter, which is likely a point where you won't need the 4% that badly anyway.
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